Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?

[Kajornsak]

7600 to apply.  The rest you pay upon approval, which could be several years in the future, if at all. 
About 100k total for those married to a Thai.  About 200k for those not married to a Thai.

The website you read is a commercial site.  They are in the business of making money.  Maybe they didn't give all the fee info because it might scare off potential business?  I really don't know.

Here is more info.  More details about the total fee.

4. Fees
4.1 A fee for each application is 7,600 baht (Seven thousand six hundred baht only) whether permission is granted or not. Application fee is not refundable.
4.2 If the application is approved by the Immigration Commission, Prime Minister and Minister of Interior, the fee for the residence permit is 191,400 baht One hundred ninety-one thousand four hundred baht only). However, the residence permit fee for spouses and children (under 20 years of age) of aliens who already had the residence permit or Thai citizens is 95,700 baht (Ninety-five thousand and seven hundred baht only).

Terry

It was only 9000 until Taksin came to power. Also visas were only 500 baht.

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[fceligoj]

What is your point?  Why are we rehashing something from over three years and about something in the rehash pre-Taksin?  It makes no sense.

Today and forward is the current situation.

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[Kajornsak]

What is your point?  Why are we rehashing something from over three years and about something in the rehash pre-Taksin?  It makes no sense.

Today and forward is the current situation.

Sorry, are you one of those wannabe moderators that kill forums? Someone was talking about the price of getting PR and I mention it was a reasonable price in the past, unlike today.


I was taking my 6  monthly look at the forum and my old posts and decided to reply.

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[Kajornsak]

This is the first time I have head any first-hand evidence that citizenship was nearly impossible. Thanks for the update.  Please keep us posted.
Tks for your post.

Rex, to update you - I applied for Thai citizenship in Dec 2017. I've had my final interview at the MoI. Now I have to wait about 6-8 months for the Minister of Interior, the PM and HM the king give the go ahead. All-in-all a pretty easy experience. the Average time is currently 2.5 years.

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[Rex (Admin)]

Very interesting.  Thanks for that.  Good luck with the finalizing. I wonder how many naturalized citizens there are in LOS?

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[kiwiaussie]

There are more than a few, but most of them are hiding in plain site. If you've been here a few years living and working, to my estimation it a no brainer to apply for citizenship, especially if you are married. As someone else said on this thread, it costs 5000 baht and is about a 2 to 3 year turn around at the moment.

For the most part, the 'application' is merely collecting many documents which you would already have. Here is a good rundown of the process if you are married. Hopefully it is okay to share:
https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-citizenship-for-foreigners-married-to-thai-spouse/

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[Rex (Admin)]

Thanks for the update, Kiwiaussie. Very interesting.  Your report, of course, brings up another couple of question. Why the persistent scuttlebutt that is is impossible or nearly impossible for the unwashed heathen to get Thai citizenship?  Or does everyone already know that and it's just me that is stuck in an information distortion bubble?

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[fceligoj]

I am a US citizen by birth.  Since this seems to a 'hot' topic, I thought I would attempt to find any information within the US Social Security System that addresses this subject, dual citizenship, US by birth and by naturalization for the other country, which might affect the ability to receive a Social Security pension.  In this instance, I would imagine that someone attempting to proceed with this is most likely not planning on renouncing their US citizenship.

This is not a trivial action to becoming a naturalized Thai citizen and continuing to be a US citizen, especially after retiring. There seems to be several legal issues where it might affect the individual with losing their rights to a Social Security pension.

For a Thai to become a naturalized US citizen, it seems the legalities are not as severe.

If a US citizen is considering to proceed with this type of dual citizenship, they should really consult a lawyer who has this type of action as one of their specialties.

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[martin]

For the most part, the 'application' is merely collecting many documents which you would already have. Here is a good rundown of the process if you are married. Hopefully it is okay to share:
https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-citizenship-for-foreigners-married-to-thai-spouse/

I was well aware of all that, having looked into a citizenship application some time ago.

For most blokes living with a Thai spouse here, the fly in the ointment is:-
- 3 years of consecutive work permits with a Thai employer,
- minimum 40,000฿salary and tax paid on that for 3 years.

Since most of us don't work, those obstacles are insurmountable.

Now, if they applied the same criteria that relates to a foreign female spouse that'd change the whole ball game ...... no working history required and therefore no tax requirement.

Talking of ‘ball games’, maybe I'll go and have a Bollockoffame operation ;-) . Nah! Thai citizenship ain't worth that sort of sacrifice.

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[Rex (Admin)]

Actually, that resolves the mystery for me.  Thanks, Martin. The  work permit x 3 years, plus B40K, plus paid taxes is probably a deal breaker except for a small subset of falang living here. That would preclude most Engarishe teachers as only the upper tier are making B40K. That precludes anyone on a retirement extension unless they change visas and qualify for a B40K job.

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[kiwiaussie]

@rex @martin

Yep, the need for the work history is the killer blow for one cohort of retirees in particular. I’d like to see some sort of path to permanency if not citizenship for those who have been in long term relationships just to provide a bit of certainly to those involved. Unfortunately the way the law is structured now, there just isn’t one.

For women married to a Thai male, the law is sexist and discriminatory no doubt, but a much overlooked fact is that the Thai male in that relationship has to prove their bonafides whether it’s income, work history and military service. I read a lot of forum comments from those women who don’t qualify as their husbands don’t earn the requisite 30k per month needed in that case. So its not a free pass for the ladies either.

In terms of seeing who gets Thai citizenship, I guess it is all about who you are exposed to. There is a large group of young and middle aged people living and working in Thailand and plenty of them aren’t English teachers. The run their own businesses, work for companies (Thai and foreign owned) or are teachers (either international schools, or language schools). But even the more established English teachers I know are pulling in more than the 40K per month and that opens up this path for them.

It’s all about getting 51 out of 100 points, if you get those points then you qualify.

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/scoring-criteria-for-thai-naturalisation-applications/

As for why people think it’s hard to get citizenship....its a good question.

Because Thai citizenship isn’t in too high demand from many westerners given their passports are pretty powerful already. This probably plays into the perception that they don’t give it out too easily. Owning land, your own business staying here without the visa and work permit hassles is great. The bureaucratic pain does go down alot. But on the travel front, the upside is more limited with the only really decent visa access to some ASEAN countries and Russia.

So that’s one aspect.

I think the fact that you have to deal with a government department to apply for citizenship scares people off.
Plenty of people, Thai and foreign, inevitably have difficult experiences in dealing with government departments here.

Add those two things together, and you get the ‘it’s next to impossible to get thai citizenship’ comments/perceptions, when in fact dealing with the special branch office is probably one of the easier departments I’ve ever dealt with here.

So part of the challenge is really about de-mystifying the process a bit for a good section of foreigners here who may actually qualify, but don’t know they do.I've met way too many people who have lived and worked here 20 years, and all that time were fully qualified for either PR or citizenship, but never bothered/didn't know/thought it was all too hard/had to be millionaires/well connected etc etc. They then reach retirement age, and are at the mercy of the visa regime of the day, when they need not be.

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[fceligoj]

Seems like there other hurdles that one has to overcome.

Here is a website that provides some additional information about necessary things one has to do.

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Thailand/Thailand-Guide/Visas-Permits/Thai-Citizenship


NOTE the requirement: You will have to swear allegiance to the King and to the country of Thailand."

This one item (above) bothers me the most, not sure about other countries.  I think from a US citizen's perspective that flies into the face of your allegiance to the flag and to the country of your birth, the USofA.

But I guess to each his own.

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[Rex (Admin)]

Tks Frank.  It also says you must be a "permanent resident."  I don't know if that is being used casually, or if you have to have already gone the the formal process of becoming a "permanent resident" which has it's own set of procedures and hoops to jump through.

Also, the Thai language provision could be a deal-breaker for many. Thai to English (and obviously vice versa) is not all that easy to acquire, and the older you are the more challenging it is.  I suppose, theoretically, even if someone is not naturally gifted in language learning, with enough determination and work, they might be able to get "good enough" depending upon what the gov deems "good enough." But for all practical purposes, it is going to be a deal break for many, especially if they are employed. BTW, I certainly don't object to language skills being a requirement. I support it. But the reality is, it will preclude many.

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[Rex (Admin)]

Maybe I am wrong, but it is hard to imagine more than a tiny percentage of falang who actually want to be citizens  with a capital "C" in the flag-waving, Buddhist observing, join the military and fight for the country if invaded by Cambodia sense. I have not looked at it in a long time, but permanent residence would be fine for most.  The only problem is that PM does not mean the same thing as it does in the U.S. (and probably other countries as well).  The last time I looked at it, I did not see very many significant advantages over just continuing on a yearly visa.

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[kiwiaussie]

Maybe I am wrong, but it is hard to imagine more than a tiny percentage of falang who actually want to be citizens  with a capital "C" in the flag-waving, Buddhist observing, join the military and fight for the country if invaded by Cambodia sense. I have not looked at it in a long time, but permanent residence would be fine for most.  The only problem is that PM does not mean the same thing as it does in the U.S. (and probably other countries as well).  The last time I looked at it, I did not see very many significant advantages over just continuing on a yearly visa.

You are not wrong. Not to say that people who get citizenship don't have an affection for the place, but in terms of being flag waving nationalistic zealots, then probably not.The interesting thing to note is that special branch and the powers that be don't really want that either.
When asked during the interview process why you want Thai citizenship, practical answers such as not needing to have to get visas, owning land/business,  making life easier are the best answers. We were told straight from the horses mouth by officials from the NIA, that obsequious answers were frowned upon, and not encouraged.
And if that's the case, there is more than a tiny percentage of farangs who would be totally suitable applicants!

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