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Author Topic: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?  (Read 9291 times)

Rex (Admin)

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2016, 10:07:04 PM »
Hi Terry, ForumMates,

I agree that few if any newly minted Thai citizens would want to join the military. However, it is one measure of "unconditional."

---

This new accommodation surely must be some kind of Intl treaty reciprocity.  I cannot imagine that Thailand would be motivated to change the long-standing policy on citizenship voluntarily and without some good reason. 

Kajornsak

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2018, 09:34:12 PM »
Hiya MJ,

Welcome!  I don't know if coming from an ASEAN country makes any difference in your case.  However, at least for falang, there are NOT many permanent residents in Thailand. There seems to be a bit of  controversy about exactly how one gets it and how difficult or easy it is to obtain.  I think you have to have been making 80K per month for three years to qualify.  However, that should not be a problem for a rich KKU teacher!  Hehehehe . . . 

Other people may have better info that I do, but my research  (admittedly minimal) gives me the impression that  there are not really many benefits to being a permanent resident, even if you can get it.  It is not like the U.S. were permanent residents are very nearly citizens and  can do everything but vote in federal elections.

Anywho, your yellow book only proves that you live at the address in the book, it has NOTHING at all to do with your immigration status. With very few exceptions (if any) your status here will always be conditional, subject to the whims and pleasures of Immigration, reviewed and approved annually, as you no doubt have been doing all along. And that is the case regardless of how many Thai husbands and kids you might have.  It is unfortunate that immigration is so limited and restricted.  The only difference is that in the "old days" the same laws were in place, but rarely enforced, and the wheels could easily be greased with some bahtski. 


I assume by "falang" you mean non-Asians.  I know quite a few Westerners with PR, but mostly in Bangkok, none in Khon Kaen. There is a quota of 100 per country per year, AFAIK.
There are some benefits like no 90 day reporting and only reporting to the police station every 5 years. Also, it is a step to gaining Naturalized citizenship for single people or those not married to a Thai.

LungBing

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2018, 06:22:10 PM »
There might be a quota, a limit of 100 people a year per nationality, but I doubt very much whether that quota is ever reached.

Red Parrot Fish

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2018, 08:15:36 PM »
No it is never reached because most of us will not qualify.
For some obscure reason they seem to prefer working and paying tax against providing for your family and being a good citizen.
Bizarre.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 08:20:01 PM by Red Parrot Fish »

Kajornsak

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2018, 09:15:08 AM »
No it is never reached because most of us will not qualify.
For some obscure reason they seem to prefer working and paying tax against providing for your family and being a good citizen.
Bizarre.
Many of us do qualify and the quotas are usually reached.


Don't most countries in the world require working, and paying taxes to get Permanent Residency?

Rex (Admin)

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2018, 10:01:38 AM »
Tue 30 Jan 2018, 9:32 am


Hi ForumMates,


I have never gotten a clear answer to these questions. Not really interested enough to pursue it, but they do seem to be key and I don't see many people discussing them.


As a background, let me explain that a (legal) immigrant to the U.S. initially receives a "green card" or work permit which is "conditional," meaning they can be deported for bad behavior. After 3 years, they may then receive "unconditional permanent residency" as a step along the path to citizenship.  However, "unconditional permanent residency" is virtually the same as citizenship except for being able to vote, and if I remember correctly, may be revoked if the person is outside the U.S. for more than six months at a time, or something like that. Unless you were really passionate about voting or running for (federal) public office, you would be the same as a citizen.  Even before you got legal status, all the rugrats you pumped out would automatically become citizens. No restriction on employment, self-employment, investment, moving money or travel.


QUESTIONS

In Thailand, is/can  PR


1. revokable?
2. own land and other real property?
3.  have 100% ownership of a business?
4. work in any industry, in any job for any employer who will hire him/her?
5. avoid 90 day reports?
6. avoid annual extensions or reviews or interviews at Imm?
7. relieve home owners (et al) from filing TM 30?
8. relieve himself or herself from filing TM 28 (assuming that is a real thing)
9. avoid keeping funds on deposit?
10.  travel without multiple-entry stickers?


If PR does not involve at least several of the important points, it is NOT truly PR. It may still have value and may still be worth doing for some expats, but the term "Permanent Resident" is very misleading, especially if compared to what it means in other countries.

fceligoj

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2018, 06:52:20 PM »
Here is a link to the Thai Embassy site discussing Thai Permanent Residency.


http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/thai-permanent-residency.php


For those of you too lazy to go to the website:


Thai Permanent Residency[/color][size=inherit]
A lot of people want to stay permanently in Thailand as it is one of the most sought-after destinations in South East Asia offering a low yet convenient standard of living.

There are a lot of inquiries from foreigners who are constantly on a trip to the Land of Smiles as to how they can apply for [/color]Thai Permanent Resident status.
Obtaining status as a Permanent Resident (PR) in Thailand has many advantages. It allows you to live permanently in Thailand, with no requirement to apply for an extension of stay. You can also have your name on a house registration document, and you will be able to buy a condominium without making a bank transfer from abroad. Getting a work permit is also made easier once you have PR status.
In addition to this, you can be eligible to become a director of a Thai public company, as well as eventually apply to become a naturalized Thai citizen. You will also be able apply for an extension of stay and Permanent Resident status for your non-Thai family members.
All applications for Thai Permanent Residency is processed by the Royal Thai Immigration Commission. The annual quota for granting permanent residency in Thailand is a maximum of 100 persons per country. The application period for Thai PR usually from October to the end of December of every year.
In order to apply to become a Thai Permanent Resident, you must meet the following criteria:
You must have had a Thai non-immigrant visa for at least three years prior to the submission of your application. Holders of multiple NON-Immigrant visas can not apply. You must have 3 consecutive yearly extensions in order to qualify.You must be a holder of a non-immigrant visa at the time of submitting your application.You must be able to meet one of these categories to apply for PR status in Thailand:Investment category (minimum 3 10 Mil. Baht investment in Thailand)Working/ Business categorySupport a family or Humanity Reasons category: In this category, you must have a relationship with a Thai citizen or an alien who already posses a residence permit as a husband or wife; father or mother; or a guardian of a Thai child under 20 years of age.Expert / academic categoryOther categories as determined by Thai ImmigrationYou should note that the list of required documents for the application depends on the category under which the application is made.
Once your application for Thai Permanent Residency is approved, a residence blue book is issued to you. You must then register your place of residence in Thailand at the local Amphur and obtain a house card. A week after the receipt of your residence certificate you can then apply for an alien book (red book) at the local police station, which is the equivalent of the Thai national ID card. You must re-register there every year.
The Residency Permit itself never expires, unless revoked. To be able to leave the country and return to Thailand, however, requires you to apply for a re-entry permit (endorsement).
You can file an application to become a Thai naturalized citizen after holding Permanent Resident status in Thailand for 10 consecutive years.
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color][/font][/size]

Rex (Admin)

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2018, 07:56:29 PM »
Tue 30 Jan 2018, 7:20 pm

Thanks Frank.

The websites only answer a few of my questions with clarity

QUESTIONS

In Thailand, is/can  PR

1. revokable?

Yes:  The Residency Permit itself never expires, "unless revoked."

2. own land and other real property?

Doesn't say, but I guess it's a "No!"  Says, "buy a condominium without making a bank transfer from abroad." Of course you can already buy a condo.  Not sure where you would get the money if you didn't transfer it from abroad.

3.  have 100% ownership of a business?

Doesn't say, but I guess it's a "No!" Says "can be eligible to become a director of a Thai public company." What does "can be eligible" mean?  Why don't they say "is eligible"?  I suppose this could be useful for few people. However, falang can already be directors of limited companies, but the company must be 51% owned by Thai partners.  Does this change with PR?  Doesn't say.

4. work in any industry, in any job for any employer who will hire him/her?

"Getting a work permit is also made easier once you have PR status." It is not terribly difficult without PR, but you are quite limited in the kinds of jobs and industries falang are allowed to participate in.  Does that change?

5. avoid 90 day reports?

Doesn't say,  but no longer need a visa or annual extension. That is helpful, but hardly worth the bother without other strong benefits

6. avoid annual extensions or reviews or interviews at Imm?

Yes. 

7. relieve home owners (et al) from filing TM 30?

Doesn't say.

8. relieve himself or herself from filing TM 28 (assuming that is a real thing)

Probably, but doesn't say

9. avoid keeping funds on deposit?

Doesn't say . . . except for "Investment Category" PR, minimum 3 10 Mil. Baht investment in Thailand)

10.  travel without multiple-entry stickers?

No.  Still must have re-entry permit(s).  Do Thai citizens need them to travel?

If PR does not involve at least several of the important points, it is NOT truly PR. It may still have value and may still be worth doing for some expats, but the term "Permanent Resident" is very misleading, especially if compared to what it means in other countries.



This is a link from the Thai Embassy website that Frank sent with shortified details
http://usa.siam-legal.com/thailand-visa/thailand-permanent-visa-us.php

Benefits

  • Buy a condo without having to transfer money from abroad.
  • You can become a director of a public company.
  • You can apply for an extension of stay for a non-Thai family members.
  • Stay in Thailand permanently without a visa.
  • Circumvent visa runs, red tape and extended stays.
  • Obtain a work permit quickly and easily.
  • Obtain a permanent residence book and alien registration book.
  • Improve your chances of acquiring mortgage financing.
  • Get one step closer to citizenship.

    How many (non-ethnic Thai) naturalized citizens are there currently in Thailand???
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 08:01:32 PM by Rex (Admin) »

Kajornsak

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2018, 11:29:43 PM »
Rex -  a brief reply to your questions.

Personally, I believe PR to be a waste of time and money these days. There are very few benefits, and still need to report to the police every 5 years, still need a re-entry permit, work permit etc. Can't own land, vote, work in many jobs etc. Never heard of it being revoked. Thais don't need a re-entry permit.

Citizenship is a much better AND easier, if married to a Thai, and a hell of a lot cheaper, only 5,000 baht. There are many foreigners who get it - seems to be a barstool myth that it's nearly impossible to get.

I applied for citizenship last month. I've already had the National Intelligence Agency interview. The next step is an interview with the Ministry of the Interior. I know someone who got citizenship a couple of months ago, it took him 2 years and 1 month -  the names are printed in the Royal Gazette.  http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/RKJ/announce/search_result.jsp?SID=02B59274C5D26AF651AA3DE08A762DF0

I think mine might take longer, but who knows, I'll keep you posted. Under the present government, things like this are going much faster.

One must get 50/100 points to qualify. These are awarded for length of stay in Thailand, qualifications, salary, knowledge of Thailand and Thai language, age. I met one guy at the interview who couldn't speak Thai. In the past one needed to pass the Prathom 6 exam but now, not essential. Singing the national anthem เพลงชาติ and the royal anthem เพลงสรรเสริญพระบารมี are NOT required anymore.The Special Branch officer in Khon Kaen said it was but he has never done the process before, told me I am the guinea pig!!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 11:31:58 PM by Kajornsak »

Rex (Admin)

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2018, 08:24:46 AM »
This is the first time I have head any first-hand evidence that citizenship was nearly impossible. Thanks for the update.  Please keep us posted.

Most of the questions I raised about PR I already knew the answers to, or had a pretty good idea I knew the answer to them. I wonder why you don't see them discussed more. In my mind they are crucial.  As I said, the term PR Permanent Resident is a misnomer if you begin with what you assume it means or compare it to what it means in other countries.

Tks for your post.

Kajornsak

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2018, 12:04:05 PM »
This is the first time I have head any first-hand evidence that citizenship was nearly impossible.


Actually, I'm saying contrary -  it's quite simple - not what many seem to think, it's what they say in Thai, riap ngai dtae yaak  เรียบง่ายแต่ยาก[/size][size=78%].[/size]

Red Parrot Fish

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2018, 12:22:48 PM »
Pretty impossible for most of us.
No job, no work permit and no record of tax payments.

Kajornsak

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2018, 01:18:21 PM »
Pretty impossible for most of us.
No job, no work permit and no record of tax payments.




Most of us?


If you're retired, it's still possible but harder.

DNPBC0

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2018, 02:05:04 PM »
Just in case Forum readers jumped to the wrong conclusion (I'm sure they didn't ..... but just in case): "ThaiEmbassy.com is not the official site of the Royal Thai Embassy and is not affiliated with the government of Thailand. This site is maintained and supported by Siam Legal, a Thai law firm. For questions about this site, please contact info@siam-legal.com."  See disclaimer at the foot of their website (link provided above by Frank). The disclaimer goes on to state, "The information provided at this site is of a general nature and may not apply to any particular set of facts or under all circumstances. It should not be construed as legal advice and does not constitute an engagement of Siam Legal or establish an attorney-client relationship. Laws are constantly changing. The information on this website was accurate at the time of posting and we make every effort to keep it current, however we are not responsible for outdated materials."

Peter


Rex (Admin)

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Re: Yellow Residence Book? Permanent Residence?
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2018, 04:45:27 PM »
This is the first time I have head any first-hand evidence that citizenship was nearly impossible.


Actually, I'm saying contrary -  it's quite simple - not what many seem to think, it's what they say in Thai, riap ngai dtae yaak  เรียบง่ายแต่ยาก[size=78%].[/size]

Sorry, my bad!    cry2 I meant to say "This is the first time I have heard any first-hand evidence that citizenship was NOT nearly impossible."