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Author Topic: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30  (Read 941 times)

Rex (Admin)

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Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« on: July 30, 2019, 10:41:18 AM »
Expat group launches online petition calling for TM.30 to be scrapped

A group of expats based in Isaan have launched a petition lobbying for reform of Thailand’s Immigration Bureau and also for the abolition of the TM.30 form.

The group describe themselves as a “collective of foreigners and Thai people wishing to reform Thai immigration”.


Read the full article and 35 (!!!) pages of comments on ThaiVisa.com => http://bit.ly/2KesDqb
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 07:15:43 PM by Rex (Admin) »



Rex (Admin)

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UPDATE: Thousands back a petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2019, 08:30:13 AM »
UPDATE

Wed 7 Aug 2019, 8:21 am

Thousands of expats are backing a petition calling for Thailand’s Immigration Bureau to scrap the controversial TM.30 reporting requirement.

ThaiVisa.com => http://bit.ly/2MHrXg0
 
The petition, which has been launched by a group of Isaan based expats, can be found at https://reform-thai-immigration.com/.

At the time of posting, the petition had already secured support from more than 3,400 people.

The aim is to get 10,000 people to sign the petition. Once the target is reached a letter will  be sent to the Prime Minister of Thailand, the Head of the Immigration Division of Thailand and Head of the Foreign Affairs.

The petition was launched following growing discontent amongst the expat community in Thailand regarding the now strict implementation of Article 37 of the Immigration Act.

 

Let me see your papers!
While Article 37 is not a new requirement, it was seldom enforced in previous years. However, it has recently become the subject of strict enforcement by some immigration offices in Thailand.

Article 37 requires any foreigner who stays in Thailand to report to immigration whenever they stay at a different address for more than 24 hours.

“There are 77 provinces in Thailand. This means if a foreign teacher lives in Buriram and decides to spend a weekend in Surin, on Monday morning, he can't teach. He must report to immigration. Even if he stays with his wife and children, and the landlord (his wife) must also report to immigration with a form TM30,” reads the petition website.

“Up until 2018 the use of form TM30 has never been strictly enforced. But now foreigners and Thai people are being fined for not having filed the form TM30 on returning to their home address following a weekend in another province. This reporting also applies to tourists but it is the duty of the hotels to report these foreigners to immigration,” the website states.

After the petition was launched last month it has already been featured in major news outlets in Thailand and overseas, including Thaivisa.com, The Thaiger, Bangkok Post and The Phuket News. Popular Thailand based blogger Richard Barrow is also championing the cause.

For more information visit: https://reform-thai-immigration.com/



« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 04:48:15 PM by Rex (Admin) »

Rex (Admin)

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UPDATE : Isaan Lawyers meets with Imm about TM30
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 05:08:10 PM »
Meeting with immigration about TM30 and the latest news about the petition
By Isaanlawyers,

Yesterday, I met the officer Longtor at Korat immigration. He was very nice, very polite and we had a conversation in Thai. I had with me a copy of the petition made by a group of expats and Thai people, a translation, some examples of problems related to TM30, statistics and an interpreter in case I could not fully understand. The interpreter is also a witness of everything that was said . . .

Continue reading on ThaiVisa.com => http://bit.ly/2ZV9XSY

« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 05:11:16 PM by Rex (Admin) »

fceligoj

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Immigration Form TM30 Submittal
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2019, 02:40:48 PM »
Since we had gone to Bangkok this past week for the Royal Barge Procession, my wife needed to complete the Form TM30.  She did not want to did it online, maybe next time.  It was due on the 16th and with me going to golf in the morning, she did it alone.

She had all the papers prepared including copies of her National ID, her Blue Book, my Passport with the associated pages, and a copy of the Yellow Book.

She went to the side window at Immigration where many SE Asian persons were waiting for who knows what.  She handed it in to the person on the other side of the window and waited about 30 minutes.

Here is the interesting part!  They gave her back two receipts, one for her and one for me.  They instructed her to tell me to ATTACH BOTH RECEIPTS TO MY PASSPORT.  The receipt for her was the normal TM30.  The other receipt that was for me is the receipt usually provided back from a Form TM28 submittal.

So things do change with each Immigration visit.

Rex (Admin)

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2019, 04:00:13 PM »
Thanks for the update, Frank. You cannot blame Immigration. I am sure they are not thrilled having to process this witless paperwork. 30 minutes to process the form and additional layers of paperwork.  Ridiculous! What if you travel frequently?  And apparently Chiangmai--from what I read on ThaiVisa.co--is not interested in the TM30 for domestic travel.

This is the first I have heard of a falang actually having to submit a TM28 although the requirement apparently exists on the books along with the TM30. So you have to report your comings and goings, and wifey has to report harboring a greasy, nasty falang in her home.  Well, I am sure everyone feels safer now!  And good for the tourist industry as well!

fceligoj

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2019, 05:11:52 PM »
REX, you made it sound draconian.  She handed in all the paperwork I had given her.  Told her not to provide my passport unless they ask.  Then she had to wait about 30 minutes since the line was very long with SE Asians doing some kind of process.  She had nothing to sort out.  The called her up and handed her the 2 receipts and told her to make sure she told her husband to attach both to his passport.  Nothing to sort out, just that they were busy.

fceligoj

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2019, 05:14:30 PM »
Sorry, I should have said in the previous statements that I DID NOT provide her with a Form TM28 to submit.  They initiated that themselves.

Rex (Admin)

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2019, 07:22:59 AM »
Frank, I did misunderstand that the wait was the result of the line, not the time it took to actually process the paperwork. It's still 30 minutes out of your wife's life she will never get back. Maybe she doesn't care about that, but I care about it on her behalf.  The take way is that this is the first time I have heard of the TM28 actually being required.  I made it sound draconian because that is what it is. Even if they were to make an app where you could sort it in five min, the concept of reporting your movements to the government draconian no matter how "convenient" or how much you rationalize it.  Any of us may decide to put up with it because in our "cost-benefit analysis" it is better just to "go along to get along," but that doesn't change the nature of the beast.

fceligoj

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2019, 11:56:37 AM »
Couple of discussion points:

1.  I have tried to get her to register online.  she keeps putting it off.  Maybe I will convince her in the next several weeks to go ahead.  We shall see.

2.  Yes, I was very surprised when I came home from golf and she said she finished the trip to Immigration.  Then told me that Immigration told her to make sure that I attach the receipts to my passport.  So, when I went to do it, as I said there were two receipts, she said one for her and one for me as Immigration told her.  So, I had to go find out from which form the receipt to me came.  It was Form TM28!  Surprise, surprise.

3.  Now, for the most controversial comments.  Why either form is even required?  Let's think about it.  Right now everything is supposedly online.  So, when your 'house-master or their representative' or a hotel or resort submits a form 30, the person's record is updated.  Right?  Now if you elect not to comply or maybe you have a criminal link where you do not 'want to have the Royal Thai Police know where you are at', they know who files and who does not once entering the country or once you process a Visa to your current location or like submitting a Form 30 and now a Form 28.  I don't think they really have any issue with the 'honest ones of us', but they are working on ridding the country of those who are a detriment to Thailand and its society.  If there were no form 30s or 28s, how would they track the criminal element? 

Hell, look in the US.  We have to report our income and provide the US government your current address (either residential or mailing.)  If you want mail delivered to a location of your choosing, you have to let the USPS (government function) know where to deliver.  What about credit cards and bank accounts?  Here is another one.  What happens if an American farang demises and he has a Thai wife to whom he leaves his 401K.  Easy to transfer, but with what I have been investigating, not a straightforward means of withdrawing any of the money.  Before the financial institution handling the 401K will proceed with the transfer, she has to submit a Form W8BEN, her personal information, so she can access the 401k accounts.  She also will have to submit a Form 1040NR ever year.  So what is the difference?  Hell, the criminal links in the US hide everything they possibly can so as not to provide the USG any direct access to them or their fortune!!

Rex (Admin)

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2019, 12:33:41 PM »
Well I guess we have to admit that from a "1984" perspective, all governments have the theoretical capacity to monitor our movements via the GPS in our phones.  Although, for the time being, one can circumvent that by leaving phone at home.  At the same time, any nogoodnicks intent on doing their nogoodnickery can travel freely in Thailand simply by avoiding hotels. If you stay with friends or in "safe houses" unless someone rats you out, there is no way to monitor and detect your movements and you are free to carry on with your high crimes and misdemeanors.


It is fair to point out the many reporting requirements we have to do in the U.S., but at this point, we don't have to tell anyone if we are traveling from Los Angeles to San Diego, or any other domestic travel.

russell17au

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2019, 12:40:00 PM »
I thought that the TM28 was only when a farang changed address and not when he was away overnight. I have always submitted a TM28 when I have moved my permanent address and never when I have needed a TM30 for any overnight stay. I have always had a receipt for the TM28 in my passport plus when I go to Bangkok or anywhere I get a new TM30 receipt

fceligoj

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2019, 01:54:09 PM »
Russell, have no idea why they gave my wife a receipt from the Form TM28.  I did not provide her a completed Form 28.  I had moved to my current address almost 6 years ago, and now my wife's Yellow Book has my name in as an occupant of our(her) home.  I did give her a copy of the Yellow Book as part of the package I gave her to submit with the Form 30.


Rex (Admin)

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2019, 03:53:24 PM »


Quote from: The Phuket News
“No, we don’t hold foreigners responsible for filing the TM30. Foreigners just need to make sure that they fill in a TM28. The TM30 is the landlord’s job,” Phuket Immigration Deputy Chief Col Nareuwat Putthawiro said plainly on Wednesday (Aug 28).


Quote from: The Phuket News
The TM28 form is for foreigners to report themselves to Immigration after staying away from their registered address for more than 24 hours, as required under Section 37 (c) of the same act.

Read complete article at The Phuket News => http://bit.ly/2EmULFe

fceligoj

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2019, 09:02:09 PM »
Rex, thank you for providing this information.  Now anyone that is on this forum should not have an excuse or a complaint about the Form TM28 submittals.  Wouldn't it have been nice if Khon Kaen Immigration would have provided this kind of explanation in the form of a flyer.  My wife had no idea why the 2nd receipt was provided to her.

We have submitted the Form TM30 at least a dozen times over the years without a murmur about this foreigner having to submit Form TM28 to them other than for my change of address twice.


I guess most of us ignored the English transliteration from Thai, 2nd part of the form title on the Form TM28 since it reads incorrectly to what they wanted us to do, but states as it does:

FORM FOR ALIENS TO NOTIFY THEIR CHANGE OF ADDRESS OR  " THEIR STAY IN THE PROVINCE FOR OVER 24 HOURS " even though it is grammatically incorrect.  Whatever Thai did the literal translation replaced "OUT OF" WITH "IN"!

Again, thank you Rex, for bringing this to our attention.

Rex (Admin)

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Re: Isaan expat group launches petition to scrap TM30
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2019, 09:59:30 PM »
This sort of thing often seems to come out of Phuket.  I don't know whether that is because they often say headline-grabbing sound bites, or if they have some kind of status in the Immigration hierarchy.  I remember there was a lot of discussion about this on ThaiVisa.com when it first came out in August,  but Frank's report above is the first I have heard about it since then.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 10:14:01 AM by Rex (Admin) »