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Author Topic: Much harsher penalties for failing to report foreigners staying in Thailand  (Read 1128 times)

Rex (Admin)

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You all are absolutely correct.  So, this is what was explained to my wife.  If the foreigner leaves for several days and checks into a hotel/resort, etc, the hotel/resort owner (in a perfect world), submits the information to immigration of the farang staying at their facility.  The farang leaves and goes back to his 'permanent' residence in Thailand.  BUT DOES NOT INFORM THE LANDLORD/OWNER THAT HE IS BACK.


Who is at fault?  Come to your own conclusions, but IMM says it is the fault of the foreigner of not informing the landlord/owner that he left and had now returned.  All this is surmised that the hotel/resort informs IMM of the farang staying in their facility.


It is no different than when you go on a trip to somewhere outside the province with wife/gf (from her residence), and when you come back she goes to IMM to submit a Form 30.


But it is all your own decision of what you plan on doing!


Frank, thanks for posting this. You bring up some good points.  Assuming that what you are saying is correct (and I am not completely sure that it is), the slimy foreigner's obligation (assuming that it is indeed a legitimate obligation) is to report to the owner, NOT to Immigration. The responsibility for filing the TM30 still belongs to the owner, not with the slimy foreigner.  In theory, the slimy foreigner sends a registered letter (or some other means that constitutes proof of compliance) to owner announcing his return, and he's out of it at that point. No?


Disclaimer: I realize that being married to or in a relationship with owner presents a different set of dynamics, but that is not what I am addressing here.

Savannah20

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Update 2: Got their email. I clicked on the link in the email which was a typical way to confirm my email address was correct. I went back to the Immigration Bureau site and click on register and then click on check status. Sure enough the application is there and says approval or non approval will be determined by KK Immigration with 7 business days. Stay tuned.            https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 01:34:36 PM by Savannah20 »

Savannah20

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By the way, step one in completing the online form is choosing if it is a Thai person or a slimy foreigner that is applying.

fceligoj

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Rex, not sure how a condo owner reports on (him/her)self.   But I know a friend of mine who owns a condo in Phuket (and does not want to get fined) has submitted a Form 30 for a foreigner renting his condo, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS A MANAGEMENT COMPANY DOING THE RENTING FOR HIM.  They would not support him (this is a new mgt company.)


There were many issues for him to complete it ONLINE.  My wife tried to assist him early in the process, then he finally went to Khon Kaen Immigration for support.  They told him they COULD NOT assist them since they are not tied directly to Phuket (they have no internet access!)  He finally got on the telephone with an officer in the Phuket Office and got the process completed with much 'pain.'


So for him, every time someone rents his condo, he will be required to submit a Form 30.  Yes Rex, as you say it, he is a 'slimy' farang!


Up here in Khon Kaen, he rents a condo from another farang, so it is the owning farang who has to initiate the Form 30.


If I see the owning farang (golfs around the same as I do), who used to live in the condo in Khon Kaen until he and his wife bought a house, and ask him about how he handled the Form 30  when he lived in his own condo.  Hope to report next week.

Reuben

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I'm with Rex, this is really beyond the ridiculous especially for those on long term stays type visas.  I live down in Ban Phai and have a condo in Khon Kaen where I spend several night a week.  I'll just have to pay a fine if caught, but I'm not going to do an address change with immigration four times a week.


Rex (Admin)

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<snip>

So for him, every time someone rents his condo, he will be required to submit a Form 30.  Yes Rex, as you say it, he is a 'slimy' farang!




Not quite, Frank. If the law is to be taken literally and complied with meticulously, your friend's tenant in Phuket would have to dutifully report to friend every time he left Phuket, which hypothetically could be quite often if the guy does business or just likes to travel around.  As friend is in Khon Kaen, not Phuket, I guess his only alternative would be to find a management company he felt he could rely upon to do the reporting.


I have not spoken to my friend in Pattaya for awhile. He owns rentals. Sharp guy, meticulous with detail. He ran the numbers, and could not see how to make his operations work using a management company.  I guess that's just Life in the Big City.  But geeze . . . The guy brings money into Thailand, builds stuff, improves general environment, and gets stymied by regulations that make no sense and serve no one except the bureaucracy that creates and implements the regulations.

kowpot

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It makes absolutely no sense that an individual on a Non-O visa or extention should need to report themselves every time he or she takes a short trip especially in country.
 A person on a tourist visa for let's say, 60 days. Can come and go as they please. Go anywhere in the country at their leisure and are not required to report to anyone. Yes, I understand that if they stay in a hotel it is the hotels responsibility to report and file a TM-30 on their behalf. But, the tourist doesn't care one way or another. Why? Because he won't be fined no matter how it comes out.
 I think immigration has got this backwards. First of all, the long stayer is constantly reconfirming their address throughout the year. They are in my opinion the least likely to be considered terrorist or any threat to Thailand.
 On the other hand. If one was a criminal or prone to criminal acts, wouldn't they just come on a short stay visa, if any visa at all?

fceligoj

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I guess you can say, "the law is the law", whether we like it or not.  Like many of you who have been here a long time, we never worried about Form 30 until the last 2-3 years when the Royal Thai Police/Immigration began to enforce a law that had been on the books for years.


I also think we as honest farangs living in Thailand are caught in the middle.  The law not only covers us but also the criminal element.  If you read the Bangkok Post or the ThaiVisa Newsletter, there are a majority of those who constantly break the immigration laws or are here for ulterior motives, like romance scammers, drug pushers, human traffickers, those hiding out from arrest warrants in their home country, etc.  So how does the government decide who is to be exempt from the current law or not?


How many overstayers has 'Big Joke' arrested?  Or illegal entry individuals?  Or those w/o work permits?  Or other illegal reasons?


The bigger frustration is all these requirements of adequate monthly or yearly income being transferred from abroad and identified in your bank account as international transfers vs what it used to be, an 'official' letter from one's Embassy.


Oh well, if the online system of submitting an electronic Form 30 really works, it should be easy to maintain 'legality.'

kowpot

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I would rather be able to do the TM-30 online more than the 90 day report.

Rex (Admin)

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I never would, please gawd, but what if I were to have a psychotic break and decide to go camping?  Does the park ranger or Smokey the Bear do the TM30? What if I do a meditation retreat at a wat in the mountains in the North? Does the head monk have to trot his hiney down to the nearest police box?

But you are correct, Kowpot, being able to report online takes away a lot of the onus. Maybe removing the onus isn't such a good thing in the long run if it obscures how draconian the law is. 

Besides, if you have a cell phone, they know where you are anyway.

Rex (Admin)

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Foreigners on extension, not required to submit TM30 every time...
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2019, 07:34:41 PM »
Sun 31 Mar 2019, 7:33 pm

Go figure!   roll roll roll


"Speaking to Tommy Dee at Fabulous 103FM, Khun Pichai, who signs all the extensions of stay for foreigners applying at Jomtien immigration answered questions regarding the TM30 form and retirement extensions.

Regarding the TM30 form, foreigners staying in Thailand on an extension of stay are not required to submit a TM30 form each time they stay outside of the province . . . "
Continue reading on ThaiVisa.com => http://bit.ly/2FE3H9B
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 07:37:54 PM by Rex (Admin) »

fceligoj

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Kind of interesting Rex, but like we have always said, each Immigration location has their own rules.  My wife specifically asked about the travel "OUTSIDE THE POVINCE"  and was told, "A NEW FORM 30 HAD TO BE SUBMITED."  If traveling within the province no requirement.  (not sure what the difference is but that is what Khon Kaen IMM has interpreted as the regulation.)


I did talk to my friend who owns a condo in Khon Kaen and he said he had to have a "juristic" individual sign the required Form 30 when he was living n that condo.  (He now rents it out to another farang as he is living elsewhere.  So now he files the Form 30 when the foreign renter leaves the province.)


By the way, isn't there another form that we would have to sign when we leave our stated residence for more than 24 hours?  This would cover your camping trip if to a national park, or you could report to the local Royal Thai Police and have them complete and sign a Form 30!


fceligoj

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I just went to the IMM website and went into forms (of course it is easier to do in Google Chrome since their titles are all in Thai.)  It is Form 25 that you could probably use if you are going to stay somewhere (like a temple, a campsite, etc.) for over 24 hours..  The title is "FORM FOR ALIENS (US-FARANGS) TO NOTIFY THEIR CHANGE OF ADDRESS OR THEIR STAY IN THE PROVINCE FOR OVER 24 HOURS."  It is to be a notification to the local police.


Wonder when they will make us formally use this notification to be able for them to track us day in and day out!

fceligoj

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Here you go, another article on the action of IMM with owners who don't report foreigners staying in their residence.

Thai media warns condo owners - face a 2,000 baht fine if you fail to report a guest ThaiVisa.com => http://bit.ly/2UbrgQW
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 08:09:08 PM by Rex (Admin) »

russell17au

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Just be prepared for another enforcement of documents. Everyone is talking about the TM30 which must be submitted by the house and hotel owners and they are forgetting about the TM28 which is the document which the alien must fill out and submit for the change of address and for staying away from your registered address for more than 24 hours. A lot of farangs forget about this document which could land them in some hot water. Remember the TM30 is for the house owner and the TM28 is for the alien and both these documents should be lodged in accordance with the rules. So if they are going to crack down on the house and hotel owners you can bet that someone will notice that the aliens are not submitting their correct forms as well.