Khon Kaen Forum

IMMIGRATION => Visas, et al => Topic started by: Rex (Admin) on May 14, 2019, 05:28:19 PM

Title: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 14, 2019, 05:28:19 PM
Tue 14 May 2019, 5:25 pm

Health Insurance now mandatory for long-stay foreigners


HEALTH insurance has been made mandatory for foreigners aged 50 years and above seeking long-term stay in Thailand.
The insurance policy must offer up to Bt40,000 coverage for outpatient treatment and up to Bt400,000 for inpatient treatment


Read the story on Thaivisa.com => http://bit.ly/2VBmCg6
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 14, 2019, 06:45:31 PM
Personally, I am not affected that much. I have had Aetna for 10 years. But it looks like I may have to add outpatinet coverage which--if you are relatively helathy--is a ridiculous, expensive, unnecessary waste of money.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: screamer on May 14, 2019, 09:36:34 PM

I've just been talking about this.
A lot of companies won't insure people over 65 years old so what are they to do?
After all, 65+ is a major part of the expat population.


Any suggestions/recommendations for health insurance companies?
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 14, 2019, 09:55:35 PM
One of the few intelligent decisions I made about my future was getting on with Aetna (formerly BUPA) when I was 61, the deadline for obtaining coverage that cannot be cancelled. The coverage is really crap for anything serious, but maybe better that dying in a ditch somewhere, or maybe patch me up good enough to survive a flight back to the U.S. were medicare applies.

If the gov is serious about enforcing this, people over 65 are seriously fucked. 

I would also be interested to know which companies, if any, are covering older expats.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Surfer on May 15, 2019, 06:32:49 AM
One of the few intelligent decisions I made about my future was getting on with Aetna (formerly BUPA) when I was 61, the deadline for obtaining coverage that cannot be cancelled. The coverage is really crap for anything serious, but maybe better that dying in a ditch somewhere, or maybe patch me up good enough to survive a flight back to the U.S. were medicare applies.

If the gov is serious about enforcing this, people over 65 are seriously fucked. 

I would also be interested to know which companies, if any, are covering older expats.
I think that all of the companies listed here accept people up to 75 or older:  https://longstay.tgia.org/
 (https://longstay.tgia.org/)The link is from the original article on Thai Visa.
The confusing part of the announcement is that it states "O-A" visas. Does that include Non O and O or is this targeted at just O-A ??
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 15, 2019, 06:37:50 AM
Tks for the link.  You raise good point. The problem is that this sort of thing is usually announced without having thought through the various unintended consequences and adjustments that might have to be made to make all the square pegs fit into the round holes. What you end up with is a lot of confusion and the final decisions left up to the individual Imm offices, which can come up with very different interpretations.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: True Blue on May 15, 2019, 07:30:00 AM
What about people with serious existing problems (heart, diabetes)? I haven't come across an insurance company which will cover you if you already have these problems.


 I read that the government think expats are a burden on the health system which I think is a load of bullshit. The problem with the Thai system is that it's very badly managed. I was in Queen Sirakit Heart Centre last month and after a few tests and draining some fluid from the chest/lungs I was handed a bill for 6,000 baht. I was happy to pay this as I received excellent service and I would definitely recommend any of you with heart problems to get treatment there. While I was there I looked at the pricing of private rooms. If you are a full paying patient the room was 1,200 baht a night. If you are a government worker the price was 200 baht per night. Who's the burden?
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Surfer on May 15, 2019, 09:30:30 AM
What about people with serious existing problems (heart, diabetes)? I haven't come across an insurance company which will cover you if you already have these problems.


 I read that the government think expats are a burden on the health system which I think is a load of bullshit. The problem with the Thai system is that it's very badly managed. I was in Queen Sirakit Heart Centre last month and after a few tests and draining some fluid from the chest/lungs I was handed a bill for 6,000 baht. I was happy to pay this as I received excellent service and I would definitely recommend any of you with heart problems to get treatment there. While I was there I looked at the pricing of private rooms. If you are a full paying patient the room was 1,200 baht a night. If you are a government worker the price was 200 baht per night. Who's the burden?
Good point.  I am lucky enough to have a policy with AIA for the last 15 years, but I will have a problem if Immigration apply the ruling to all Extensions. My policy (like Rex) is for "In Patient" only and AIA will not allow me to extend it to "Out Patient" due to existing conditions.  cry2 cry2
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 15, 2019, 11:04:28 AM
We don't know how this is going to play out, however at this moment, the literalist interpretation is that if you are unable to obtain the specified coverage, for whatever reason, you will be denied a visa extension and you evil, slimy foreigner must go home. Period. The fact that this might represent an inconvenience and a burden to the evil, slimy foreigner and his spouse and family is not really an issue one way or the other.  Whether or not the sincere intention is to protect the poor, pitiful health care providers from the evil, slimy foreigner, the actual impact is perfectly aligned with the ongoing policy of reducing the number of evil, slimy foreigners living in Thailand. It is really quite "elegant" if you think about it because at this point there isn't any obvious work-around as there might be with other visa regulations. If you can't get the coverage, you cant get the coverage. Sorry, Charlie!

If there is sufficient demand, maybe the various carriers will form a pool ofr the outliers.  Bet that will cost a bundle.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 15, 2019, 12:30:48 PM
NEWS FLASH!  Hot off the press from BOOOOPA.  Unless something was lost in the translation, at present my next renewal will cost B72K.  (Oh, joy!).  However, if I upgrade to OPD B75,000 maximum, my new premium will be B120K.  That is an additional B48K for something I don't use.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 15, 2019, 05:36:16 PM
I will be doing my 90 Day Report tomorrow, Thursday.  It'll interesting if anything is said about the mandatory medical insurance for long term stay under the retirement extension I have.  Will report back.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Savannah20 on May 15, 2019, 07:29:38 PM
Hoping this link works. Could be some deals out there at reduced costs. Especially if the policy has a deductible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se7lIyNntZU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se7lIyNntZU)
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: avvocato on May 15, 2019, 09:11:14 PM
I am covered by my wife's government insurance. I wonder how immigration will treat that "policy" and what I might need in documentation from the Teacher's Association?
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 15, 2019, 09:52:55 PM
Wed 15 May 2019, 9:44 pmThanks Savannah!An interesting question came in the comments section of the video you shared about pre-existing conditions. The most common pre-existing condition for older evil, slimy foreigners is hypertension. I think about 1/3 of all older people have it.  Hypertension and quote-unquote "its complications" is excluded by most or all carriers. That means if you have hypertension, you had better hope for cancer because if you have a catastrophic stoker or heart or kidney event, they can blame it on hypertension and deny your claim.That throws a fly into the ointment, doesn't it? Is Imm now supposed to have someone on staff who can read an insurance policy and screen for exclusions that might mean the evil, smelly foreigner might stiff the poor, pitiful hospitals and not pay his bill?  "Oh, Mr. Evil Smelly Foreigner, we see you have that really, really GROOVY BOOOOOPA insurance that you paid B75K for. However, since there are exclusions we can't have you abusing the poor hospitals and not paying your bill. VISA DENIED Now, Thailand is safe from you!  Stamp, stamp, stamp ... "What about policies with high deductibles and/or co-pays? I assume that would get your visa denied because what if you didn't have the cash to pay the deductible or the co-pay?BTW, here is the link to some health insurance alternatives https://longstay.tgia.org/ (https://longstay.tgia.org/)
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: avvocato on May 15, 2019, 11:51:57 PM
After further review looks like this affects only O-A visa holders , and I believe retirement / marriage extensions are O.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Savannah20 on May 16, 2019, 05:41:25 AM
Hoping Frank gets some insight when he goes in for his 90 day report today.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 16, 2019, 06:43:08 AM
My friend knows one of the mucky-mucks at KK Imm. Called yesterday to ask about the new insurance rules. Her call was the first he had heard about it.  Maybe Frank will learn more.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 16, 2019, 08:04:49 AM
I assume this is just sloppy writing, but an interesting wrinkle. The wording in one of the original threads on ThaiVisa sez:


"Approved by the Cabinet last month, the new regulation will require expats on the long-stay non-immigrant O-A visa to have health insurance that offers Bt40,000 coverage for outpatient treatment and Bt400,000 for inpatient." http://bit.ly/2HvXEVi

For example, I am on a plain, vanilla "O" visa and annual retirement extension. The wording above makes it sounds like I am exempt from the new regulations. But that must be a red herring, no?
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: russell17au on May 16, 2019, 09:22:03 AM
No, Rex, I believe it is not a red herring. Those that are on a Non-Imm "O" 90 day visa with an extension on the basis of retirement or marriage are subjected to have to prove their financials by either seasoned money in a Thai bank account or a proven monthly income. Those that are on a Non-Imm "O-A" 1 year visa for retirement which is obtained from a Thai Embassy or Consulate in their home country are not subjected to any financials so this is one way of getting those retirees to have some type of financial commitment in Thailand. So look out all those that are on 1 year Multi-Entry Marriage visa's obtained without having to show any financials, you could be the next target
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 16, 2019, 10:36:53 AM
I think there are too many interpretations of what is required of whom.  It is so early in the process.


It will be interesting to see if the one comment by the minister about having 400,000 baht in a saving account vs medical insurance if one is not insurable or too old to get it.  Most companies need one to be under a plan by 75.  What about those who are 76?, 77?, etc., and trying to get insurance?


This is just like what happened when they announced the regulation of having 800,000 'seasoned' baht in a savings account to get a retirement extension.  Look how that got clarified.  My opinion, anyone with more than a 30 day tourist stamp (any kind of basic visa with long stay possibilities attached), is going to be required to have medical insurance, or hopefully the ability to have 400,000 baht in the bank to cover medical expenses.  If you are over 75, the cost of this type of insurance is 100,000 baht or over, so if you are healthy and do not have any medical emergencies, etc., in four years, you will have spent 400,000+ baht with nothing to show!


I guess we have to wait until the Top Dog of Immigration comes out with his position.


Anyway, went in at 8:23, left at 8:28.  Yes, all done before 8:30.  Most of the time was spent waiting for her printer to warm up and her finding her glasses.  I did not want to ask directly about this new potential regulation.  She only wanted to talk about the fact my extension being due on the 12th of Sep, and me needing to make my next 90 Day Report on the 13th of August.  Said I could do both since I would be within the 30 day window of my extension renewal date.


Since I have Medical and outpatient Insurance with AIA, I thought I could 'poke' my agent in the eye about how they were responding to this new law.  Of course, he had no idea about it, has to go investigate.  By the way, he is not one of those 'run of the mill' agents, he owns an agency with more than 5 agents working for him.  So he is more than just one of the salespersons.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 16, 2019, 07:51:42 PM
No, Rex, I believe it is not a red herring. Those that are on a Non-Imm "O" 90 day visa with an extension on the basis of retirement or marriage are subjected to have to prove their financials by either seasoned money in a Thai bank account or a proven monthly income. Those that are on a Non-Imm "O-A" 1 year visa for retirement which is obtained from a Thai Embassy or Consulate in their home country are not subjected to any financials so this is one way of getting those retirees to have some type of financial commitment in Thailand. So look out all those that are on 1 year Multi-Entry Marriage visa's obtained without having to show any financials, you could be the next target

I hope you are correct, Russell, at least as it applies to my situation, not wanting to pony up an extra B48K just get get B40K in OPD that I will probably never use.

Are you saying that the OA folks, once they get a retirement/marriage extension, and will then be required to provide financialsl, will no longer be required to prove insurance?  Something doesn't add up.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 16, 2019, 07:58:39 PM
I think there are too many interpretations of what is required of whom.  It is so early in the process.


<snip>

Since I have Medical and outpatient Insurance with AIA, I thought I could 'poke' my agent in the eye about how they were responding to this new law.  Of course, he had no idea about it, has to go investigate.  By the way, he is not one of those 'run of the mill' agents, he owns an agency with more than 5 agents working for him.  So he is more than just one of the salespersons.


Thanks Frank.  Typical that "they" decide something sounds like a good idea, pass a law, and toss out the announcement like a hand grenade; no thought to the unintended consequences, how it effects various groups of people,  or how to deal with the inevitable conflicts and questions that must be addressed.


Sigh!
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 16, 2019, 08:26:19 PM
This is a response to Russell.  When I got my original non-immigrant visa (I am pretty sure it was for one year), I had to provide the Thai Consulate in the USA (Atlanta, Georgia), a copy of my Thai marriage license (in lieu of a reference letter), a copy of my bank statement showing that I had adequate funds for coming to Thailand, and the other documents necessary along with my Passport and the Application Form plus the fee.  This was in 2010!  Of course, they never asked about my health.


So in Australia or wherever, maybe you don't need financial support prof, but in the US you did.


Then of course, when I got my first Retirement extension, we were into the Embassy Income Certification Letter business, the rental agreement, and a copy of the homeowners ID (signed).  That was in 2010 (I did not wait for my non-imm to 'run its course'), and got the extension early.


So I came in June and got my extension on 12 September!
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: russell17au on May 16, 2019, 08:38:23 PM
Rex, the Non-Imm "O-A" visa is a 1 year visa that is a applied for at the Thai Embassy or Consulate in your home country and you can get a 1 year renewal and then you must apply for a new visa. This visa cannot be applied for in Thailand and it is a retirement only visa and this is the visa that this medical insurance is tired to. For the Non-Imm "O-A" visa you do not need the financials because you can apply for this visa without ever being to Thailand before your application, hence no financials because you cannot open a Thai bank account and season the money to meet the requirements, even the old requirements. You are on a Non-Imm "O" visa that is only for 90 days and then you must have an extension based on retirement with all the new financials that have just been introduced and an extension based on marriage which also carries financial requirements. The other visa that I mentioned is the Multi Entry visa that you can get at Suvannakhet and HCMC and this visa is for marriage only which also does no have any financials attached to it, and that is why I said that this one will probably next on the hit list. I am on the same visa as you but I am on an extension based on marriage. This insurance does NOT relate to the Non-Imm "O" visa and extensions it is only for the Non-Imm "O-A" visa.
Frank, have a look in your passport at your visa that is in there and it will tell you what type of visa you are on. It will either read "Non-Immigrant "O" or "Non-Immigrant "O-A". All countries when you apply for a visa you must show that you have the funds to support yourself but the difference is that with a Non-Imm "O-A" visa those funds do not have to be in a Thai bank account whereas with the Non-Imm "O" visa and extensions the funds DO have to be in a Thai bank account.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: russell17au on May 16, 2019, 08:56:40 PM
Frank, if you had to apply for an extension based on retirement then you are on a Non-Imm "O" visa because with the Non-Imm "O-A" visa you do not apply for an extension based on retirement because it is a retirement visa and it is valid for 1 year with the option of a 1 year renewal.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: russell17au on May 16, 2019, 09:34:33 PM
This is a Non-Imm "O-A" visa and there are no extension stamps that go with this visa. You can get a 1 year renewal and then you must leave Thailand and apply for a new visa. This is the visa type that the mandatory health insurance is on and not the Non-Imm "O" visa.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: screamer on May 16, 2019, 10:08:50 PM

Just to clarify.


I have a non-imm multi entry O-A visa for 1 year.
Am I right in thinking that I still need to do a 90 day report even though the stamp says 26/4/2020?

Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 16, 2019, 10:25:48 PM
We are all making assumptions that can only be declared and defined by immigration.  It may be that all foreigners over 50 and living in Thailand on an almost permanent basis will require  medical insurance coverage whether it is through one of the Thai companies or medical insurance coverage from their home country.


This is much like what happened a few months ago when the whole business of requiring 800,000 seasoned baht in a Thai bank account was to be 'required', no other options available.  Then the real story came out.


We are considering the side of the foreigners, but think about the Insurance Companies, six already are willing to support and from what I heard more to come.  Why?  They are only liable for up to 400,000 baht per year per insured.  I'll bet none of them will lose money because they have done their actuarial diligence.


In the five years that I have had my Thai Medical Insurance policy, I have never placed a claim against it.  100% GROSS MARGIN to the insurance company.


As usual, it is the few who screw it up for the rest of us!  "OH, I HAVE NO MONEY TO PAY THE HOSPITAL BILLS!  I'LL JUST WALK AWAY!"
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 16, 2019, 10:28:44 PM
Screamer, on that type of VISA, don't you have to exit and re-enter Thailand every 90 days?


You should check at Immigration.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: screamer on May 16, 2019, 10:32:36 PM
Screamer, on that type of VISA, don't you have to exit and re-enter Thailand every 90 days?


You should check at Immigration.



Not that I know of. Otherwise it wouldn't be a 1 year visa.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: TerryLH on May 17, 2019, 01:34:04 AM
Lots of confusion about this subject.
Above there are also some contradictory info which just adds to the confusion.  Plus some wrong info.


A Non O-A visa is one that you apply for in your home country or country of residence.  It is multiple entry with each entry good for one year.
You cannot renew this visa.  You can, however, leave just prior to it (visa) expiring and get a years entry.  During this year you would need to get a re-entry permit if you planned a trip and wanted to keep your permission valid.


At any point, 30 days prior to any permission to stay date, you could go to immigration and apply to extend it for a year.


In a post above one poster said, in the same post, that you didn't need financials and that you do need financials.
For a Non O-A visa you do need financials, but it can be in a bank anywhere. 


Since a Non O-A allows a years stay, you will need to do 90 day reports if you stay longer than 90 days at any one time.


For a Non O Multiple entry, no report is required because each entry is only good for 90 days.




So far all the news articles I've seen says Non O-A visa.  I also read that there are 38 million people here on Non O-A visas.


I don't believe that is correct.  I think some of the people talking about this or writing the interviews don't really understand what they are talking/wring about.
That is just my uneducated opinion.


I think what we will find out sooner or later, is that the insurance will be required for all yearly extensions - at least those extended for retirement.
If not, I see a time when there isn't much call for a Non O-A for a majority of folks.  Not when a Non O will be a better deal.


The second part of this post is speculation.  The first part was not.


Terry
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: screamer on May 17, 2019, 01:57:33 AM
Thanks Terry.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Savannah20 on May 17, 2019, 07:16:17 AM
Maybe someday they will charge 25,000 baht for a one year visa and have it include health insurance. Maybe someday I will win the lottery.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 17, 2019, 10:12:47 AM
 

Lots of confusion about this subject.

<snip>

I think what we will find out sooner or later, is that the insurance will be required for all yearly extensions - at least those extended for retirement.
If not, I see a time when there isn't much call for a Non O-A for a majority of folks.  Not when a Non O will be a better deal.


The second part of this post is speculation.  The first part was not.


Terry


Thanks, Terry! As always, your expertise is valued. For me personally, I hope you are wrong, but you probably are not wrong.  The wording re O and OA is clear enough, but I'll bet it was just a careless mis-statement adding an unnecessary layer of confusion into an already confusing discussion. One of the problems is that I had never realized there was a distinction between O and OA until this recent hand grenade has forced me to pay attention.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 17, 2019, 04:56:41 PM
At the time in 2011, working a informal arrangement with Siam Legal, here is my thread for getting my TYPE "O" VISA, at the age of 67.


I found my old passport which has my original NON-IMMIGRANT VISA TYPE "O" ISSUED 26 MAY 2011.  It was issued at the Thai Consulate in Atlanta, Georgia - USA. When I arrived in Thailand the IMM Officer stamped my passport identifying a "good until 12 SEP 2011" arrival stamp after which I would have to exit the country and return.  So I did a retirement extension on 25 AUG 2011, even though it was questioned by the IMM Officer of why do it so early.  He told me the ride to Laos was an easy journey.  So now I continue to exercise a renewal before 12 SEP every year.


Back in the US, to initially get my "O", I had to prove I had the financial wherewithal using my bank accounts in the US.  For a valid reference, I could have used a friend of mine who owns a Thai business or Siam Legal letter but the Administrative Assistant to the Consul General suggested that a copy of my marriage license would suffice.


It'll be interesting to see the final declaration out of Immigration on who will be required to get the Mandatory Medical Insurance.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 17, 2019, 05:43:55 PM
When I got my "O" visa at Vientiane late in 2005, I am quite sure I was not asked about financials. It was a long time ago so I might be mistaken, but I don't remember being asked about it. The process was a little complicated because you had to make your application in the morning and then return the next day to collect your visa. I understand that now it is more complicated as you have to make an appointment in advance.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 18, 2019, 10:25:49 AM
Rex, I went online to one of the Thai Embassy website pertaining to Types of VISAs.  You are right on the Type "O".  I guess the Administrative Assistant to the Consul-General added the bank statement to my set of documentation for the visa request.  She probably wanted to cover all bases.


Boy, the Type "O-A" requires significantly more documentation, all having to be notarized.


Happy we have our "Type O".  By the way, I am really happy that I've kept my old passport which has the Type "O" Visa in it.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 18, 2019, 11:45:03 AM
I am going to hope (without expectation) that when the cabinet referred to type OA, that was not sloppy, and that they intended to make a distinction between OA and O. Why on earth they would make such a distinction is beyond me. However, if the meant it, as I have been saying, it saves me B48K which would essentially be an expense that provides NOTHING. I would rather give the money to charity than as a gratuity to BOOOOPA.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: screamer on May 18, 2019, 12:00:51 PM

Boy, the Type "O-A" requires significantly more documentation, all having to be notarized.




I got an O-A a couple of years ago in the UK but let it lapse. I got everything notarized as per their instructions.


Last month I got another one and the wording had slightly changed to having to be notarized if it wasn't an original document.
I took a chance and sent everything off without getting anything notarised and hoped even a bank statement I downloaded myself would be accepted.


As usual, I sent off everything they asked for and more so maybe the un-notarized things weren't needed but it came back in a couple of days.


Mind, it was a bit of a panic as I deliberately left it late with regard to next year's trips and didn't think they would take both Thai and UK holidays which included Songkran and Easter next to each other.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 18, 2019, 08:21:55 PM
You dodged a bullet this time!  roll


Who the hell ever knows when they are going to decide to be sticklers on some trivial issue and when they are going to go by the "smell test" and approve when everything seems on the up-and-up.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 21, 2019, 10:05:03 AM
a USEmbassy article in the Phuket News says essentially nothing about the definition of who is required to have Medical Insurance.  t looks like a 'cover my tracks' type of article that says you should have the insurance or you cold be faced with a large debt that is unanticipated.  Read for yourself.

http://bit.ly/2ElwVtL (http://bit.ly/2ElwVtL)


 
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Savannah20 on May 22, 2019, 07:08:39 AM
Adding to the confusion, I went to the US Embassy website and can't see that they issued such a warning/advisory/article. At least I didn't see anything.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 22, 2019, 07:54:07 AM
Thanks for the heads up Savannah.  I decided to go into more detail on what was in the 'article'.


What it looks like, someone went into the US State Department website and under 'STEP', which is an assistance from the department for international travelers once they embark to a country.  (I enrolled many years ago in STEP to get current information that they decide is important to travelers to Thailand.)


Whoever put the article together, they have cut and pasted general information from the subarticles on "HEATH", nothing to do with the specific new law.  They pulled word for word the general statements about making sure you have adequate coverage when traveling, and while incountry, most hospital are "cash and carry."


I guess when you have nothing to report, you make it up!!!
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 22, 2019, 09:28:50 AM
Fakenews! >:(
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Savannah20 on May 23, 2019, 12:37:49 PM
I did see this on the US Embassy Bangkok website:

Dear American Citizens,The U.S Embassy Bangkok and Consulate General Chiang Mai will no longer provide scheduled Consular Outreach Services.Please renew your adult passport by mail: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/passports/adult-passport-renew/ (https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/passports/adult-passport-renew/).When renewing a minor passport please be advised that both parents and minor children under 16 years old will need to appear at the Embassy. https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/passports/minor-passport-renew/ (https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/passports/minor-passport-renew/). Special Notes: The Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) is a free service of the U.S. Department of State Bureau of Consular Affairs which allows U.S. citizens traveling and living abroad to receive important information by enrolling with their nearest Embassy or Consulate. If you would like to receive information, please register for STEP athttps://step.state.gov/step/ (https://step.state.gov/step/). Please see: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/ (https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/)for more information about services provided at the Embassy.Follow us on Twitter:@ACSBKK (https://twitter.com/acsbkk)
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on May 24, 2019, 04:22:39 PM
I am still concerned on the clarification.  How does one local office of Immigration announce this and not the Head of Immigration?  They are probably right, but it still would be better if it came from the Big Boss.  Check out the URL below.

ThaiVisa.com => http://bit.ly/2wfrOXI (http://bit.ly/2wfrOXI)
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on May 24, 2019, 05:35:17 PM
Thanks Frank! The story on ThaiVisa.com => http://bit.ly/2wfrOXI (http://bit.ly/2wfrOXI) not only is quite clear, but unambiguously states several different times that the mandatory insurance requirement is for O-A visa, and not O visa.  This is just small excerpt:

"Prachuap Khiri Khan Immigration told Thaivisa that the new requirements only affect people seeking Non-Immigrant Visa O-A.

The requirement for mandatory health insurance does not affect those people who stay in Thailand on a Non O extension of stay based on retirement."

Frank makes a good point about the announcement coming from a local office rather than the head of Imm, but that "could" just be the imponderables of Thai bureaucracy. Or not. We'll see. I guess.

There is also the curiosity I raised in an earlier post. If the intention is to protect Thailand health care providers from nasty, smelly foreigners who don't pay their medical bills, limiting the application to O-A visa holders makes no sense. What on earth is this all about anyway?  Probably we will never know.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Savannah20 on May 24, 2019, 06:56:27 PM
Might be a good idea to move to Prachuap Khiri Khan.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on July 09, 2019, 10:40:02 AM
My wife was concerned about having me pay for a Major Medical Insurance policy from one of the companies identified if it was required for NonImm O's Retirement Extensions.  Seems she went on the government hotline Monday and was told she needed to go to the local IMM office to check. 


I know we have seen the requirement only for NonImm O-A's but she wanted to make sure.  So I had to take her to the Khon Kaen IMM Office so she could go in by herself and ask the question.  Why?  I have a lower valued Medical Insurance Policy from AIA that needs to be renewed on the 11th of this month (about 60% price of the ones advertised.)


The IMM Officer told her that she and I had nothing to worry about, the insurance requirements are not for me.


I'll bet the reason we have heard nothing new about the Medical Insurance requirements, they DO NOT know how to implement.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on July 09, 2019, 12:01:09 PM
BOOOPA--I guess one of the most commonly used by falang--doesn't make it easier by describing benefit payout per day rather than total coverage as was specified in the Imm announcements. 
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on August 18, 2019, 05:35:49 PM
Wonder if the Thai Government will go forward on the 22nd of August with the announcement.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1118333-details-of-mandatory-health-insurance-for-non-imm-o-a-visas-to-be-announced-next-week/?utm_source=newsletter-20190818-0912&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news (https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1118333-details-of-mandatory-health-insurance-for-non-imm-o-a-visas-to-be-announced-next-week/?utm_source=newsletter-20190818-0912&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news)




(https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1118333-details-of-mandatory-health-insurance-for-non-imm-o-a-visas-to-be-announced-next-week/)

Posted 8 hours ago

[/size]Details of mandatory health insurance for Non-Imm O-A visas to be announced next week An official announcement regarding the details of the proposed mandatory health insurance requirement for Non-Immigrant O-A visas is due to be made next week. On Friday, a senior executive from one of the insurance companies involved in the scheme told Thaivisa that the Office of Insurance Commission, the Ministry of Public Health, the Foreign Ministry and Immigration Bureau will announce the insurance requirements for  Non-Immigrant O-A visas on 22 August. In May, it was proposed that foreigners applying for Non-Immigrant O-A visas would be required to have health insurance that offers Bt40,000 outpatient coverage and Bt400,000 baht inpatient coverage and it is these details, along with others, which are expected to be confirmed in next week’s announcement. The mandatory health insurance requirement was proposed to help Thailand tackle the large number of unpaid medical bills from foreigners who receive treatment in Thai state hospitals. Figures from the Department of Health Service Support reported by The Nation in May revealed that from 2016 to 2019 there was a combined total of more than one billion baht in unpaid medical bills from foreigners. As of today, the mandatory health insurance requirement has only been proposed for Non-Immigrant O-A visas and not for other visa types or extensions of stay.[size=inherit]
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on August 18, 2019, 07:48:29 PM
It sounds like a perfectly reasonable proposal, doesn't it.  But like some many things, it is being implement before it has been thought through carefully.  Some of the issues brought up on a ThaiVisa discussion


1. What about exclusions for preexisting conditions and denied claims (for whatever reasons?) If the insurance don't pay, the hospital still gets stiffed if the nasty, greasy falang can't cover out of pocket.

2. Outpatient is a terrible deal. In my BOOOPA case, it would add an additional B50,000 to the premium to obtain a maximum payout of B75,000.

3. New coverage is difficult or impossible to get if you are over 60, which is essentially every greasy, nasty, old fart falang on a retirement extension.

4. Generally, private insurance just isn't very good.  It is expensive and doesn't provide enough coverage to deal with major illness, which is what most of us are looking at sooner or later. 


Of course the solution is to fold in expat coverage into the national Thai insurance scheme, charge for it, and  add on a hefty surcharge (because after all, we are greasy and nasty). Of course, that is too logical, would work too well, and would deprive private health care of exorbitant premiums that provide in adequate coverage. 

But remember, inadequate coverage just means that the hospitals still run the risk of getting stiffed for any costs insurance or the nasty, greasy falang won't pay for.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Savannah20 on November 06, 2019, 07:39:25 AM
This announcement is clearer if it is accurate???


https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/mandatory-health-insurance-for-long-stay-visa-starts-october-31 (https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/mandatory-health-insurance-for-long-stay-visa-starts-october-31)
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on November 06, 2019, 09:35:21 AM
Tks for the update, Savannah. 


However, the headline "Mandatory health insurance for ‘Long Stay’ visa starts October 31" is misleading and perhaps deliberately inflammatory.


This applies (at least for the time being) only to those on an "O-A" retirement visa obtained at a consulate/embassy outside of Thailand. I suspect that most of us are on an "O" visa with a retirement extension issued by the Imm office inside Thailand. Most or large numbers of us did not come into Thailand with an "O-A" visa. We had some other type of visa, and then converted it to a retirement extension at the Imm office.

The big problem with the insurance requirement of B40K outpatient coverage which is quite costly, at least from BOOOOPA who will only give me B75K of outpatient and charge me an additional B50K premium.  It's a joke!  Why would anyone pay B50K for a maximum possible payout of B75K?  Even in the unlikely event you used the maximum, that would mean 30 hospital visits during the year at the limit of B2.5K per visit.  BTW, this does not apply to me, but I did the research before the "O-A" clarification came out earlier this year.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: screamer on November 06, 2019, 05:08:49 PM

I arrived in Thailand today.
I got my multi O-A issued in London in mid-April this year and they asked me for it at BKK immig.
The person I gave my summary card to didn't seem to know what to do with it. He asked the man next to him then called someone else over.
He accepted it in the end.


I've still no idea how these visas work.
When I arrived in July I was stamped to mid-July 2020 but today I only got stamped to mid-June next year.



Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: TerryLH on November 08, 2019, 12:09:16 AM
"When I arrived in July I was stamped to mid-July 2020 but today I only got stamped to mid-June next year."

That sounds like they gave you the wrong date.

Not really a problem if you'll be traveling again before the OA visa expires in April.
Just be sure that they give you a year if entering again prior to April.

If you won't be traveling soon, you might want to have immigration correct what looks like a wrong date.

Remember, you can get a second year with an entry just prior to the visa expiring.

Terry
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: screamer on November 08, 2019, 06:52:24 AM

Thanks Terry,
It's just a short visit this time but I should be back before April.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Reuben on November 08, 2019, 03:28:38 PM
Just received a notice from the U. S. State Department (American Embassy-Bangkok) regarding this matter.  It goes into effect on October 31, 2019 and pertains to those with O-A and O-X visas.  If also provides a download for an Overseas Insurance Certificate Form.  If you have insurance with other that a Thai Co. you may provide this  signed form, completed by your insurance company as proof of insurance.


I'm not sure what type of visa I have.  When I got my new passport in Jun 2017 and they converted stamps over to my new passport they recorded that I changed from a Non B to a Non O in December 2003, but they also stamped that on 17 March 2016 that my visa was a Non-RE.  Is there such a thing as a Non-RE?
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on November 08, 2019, 08:06:58 PM
Thanks Reuben. It is import to make sure whether this regulation applies to you or not and to clarify what type of visa you actually have. If you are not sure, visit your Imm office and find out.  Most (or at least a substantial number of us) are on an "O" visa, as opposed to to an "O-A" or "O-X".  The "O-X" is a ten year visa.  The confusion over this has generated in literally hundreds of pages of discussion on ThaiVisa.com . While I strongly suspect this will eventually apply to all long-stay nasty, greasy falang, at the moment it does not.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Savannah20 on November 16, 2019, 08:16:37 AM
I would not bet against the possibility that, in the future, there will be "agents" to assist greasy falangs who need insurance, but don't have it, to complete the visa extension process.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on November 16, 2019, 08:22:02 AM
That is one of the things agents do now already, lah; facilitate the application process without the need to demonstrate insurance.
Title: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners (on an O-A Visa)
Post by: fceligoj on November 30, 2019, 04:22:58 PM
Rex, I think you made it under the wire.  For all the rest of you on a Non Immigrant "O-A" Visa, be prepared.

A golfing friend of mine went to Khon Kaen Immigration on Thursday the 28th of Nov.  He was attempting to renew his Marriage extension based upon the Non "O-A" visa.

Everything was going along as it should with no issues until at the end.  The I/O did not ask him any questions, but got up and went back to talk to a senior person in Immigration.  They talked for quite a while and then went in to see the Supervisor.  The three of them got on the phone to some one either in the regional office or back to Bangkok.

The I/O came out and told him that he is the first individual that had come in to renew his Marriage Extension based upon a non "O-A" visa.  He needs to have insurance before they can approve.  (This is all new so it is more than just those who are getting a NEW Non "O-A" visa, it will be for everyone that has an "O-A" and is attempting to renew.)  He said he had an AIA Policy that exceeds the minimum requirement, but they said they CANNOT accept it as coverage since AIA would not sign up with Immigration as a provider.  (The only way AIA will provide the medical insurance for it to be tied to a Life Insurance policy.)

Rex, is Aetna on the Immigration list of acceptable Medical Insurance providers?

He is on his way this Sunday, the 1st, to Laos to get the Non IMM type "O" Marriage Visa.  He is not going to Savannakhet but to Vientiane instead.  Said he will report back on whether he was successful or not.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on November 30, 2019, 05:57:59 PM
Thanks for the report, Frank.

Just to keep the record straight, I am on an "O" not an "O-A."  I have posted about the insurance issue because at first, I was not clear about "O" vs. "O-A" situation.  However, I do have Aetna (BOOOPA), but only inpatient. When I investigated rates, I learned that it would cost an additional B50K on top of my B72K to add outpatient. One of the worst deals I have ever seen.  B50K would get me a maximum of of B75K of coverage during the year. At the time, there was no option for only the Imm required B40K coverage. If they use the same formula, B40K would cost nearly B28K. Ridiculous.


I would be surprised if Aetna was not on the approved list, but I don't know one way or the other.

The other option for your friend is to use an agent.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: fceligoj on December 01, 2019, 11:38:14 AM
He feels there is no need since once he has the Non "O" Visa based on marriage he will use the Non "O" to get a new marriage extension at Khon Kaen Immigration.  Then no need for a visa run every 90 Days.  He will report on his success, etc., once he is back.

On the Medical Insurance side, I have a reasonable policy with AIA for about B50K a year (of course tied to a life insurance policy with my wife as the beneficiary.)  It gives me B25K of outpatient coverage, but like I said AIA refuses to belong to the group of insurance company 'qualified' by Immigration.  (You have to wonder how much of a kickback the insurance companies on the approved list have to pay.)

Rex, sorry that I assume you had an "O-A" with all your concern with the medical insurance.
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: TerryLH on December 01, 2019, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: fceligoj
He is on his way this Sunday, the 1st, to Laos to get the Non IMM type "O" Marriage Visa.  He is not going to Savannakhet but to Vientiane instead.

Does he have an appointment?

 
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: Rex (Admin) on December 01, 2019, 06:13:01 PM
If he doesn't, I guess he will find out on Monday morning that he needed one.  It is not like the good old days when you could just drop in at the Consulate.  Leading up to my renewal last month, as I was considering my options, I was going to book an appointment at Vientiane as a fall-back in case my application went pear-shaped.  I don't recall it being as busy as someone told me, but you still need to plan ahead.  Ain't life in these here modern times wonderful?
Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners
Post by: russell17au on December 01, 2019, 10:03:19 PM
You can get the same visa at Savannakhet and there is no appointment needed just romp up like we used to do at Vientiane plus there is also the extra of being able to get a multi entry if it works out better for you. The only reason I got the multi entry was because of Khon Kaen Immigration and now it gives me 15 months to see what happens here with the strength of the baht and any changes to the rules that they may think up. Savannakhet is not much different in travel time.

Title: Re: Health Insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners - Aetna
Post by: Savannah20 on December 05, 2019, 07:54:33 PM
Some info that I did not really read:


https://www.aetna.co.th/en/long-stay-visa/ (https://www.aetna.co.th/en/long-stay-visa/)